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  #1  
Old 09-30-2009, 09:59 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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Default MT Zip code / address / radius search - call for sponsors

Hi,

I'm an independent software developer with multiple clients that asked me to do extensions or improvements to Mosets Tree (and Hot Property).

There have been a lot of people asking the forums for zip code and radius search for Mosets Tree. There was a commercial provider of an extension to do zip code searches, but they seem to have closed up shop. Well, I have looked at the task and at my previous projects. I am confident I can deliver a high-quality, GPL licensed Mosets Tree extension to do what people are asking for.

I plan a component which is symbiotic to Mosets Tree. It installs as a separate component, but uses the Mosets Tree database and configuration. I call it "Tree Moss". It is symbiotic with the Tree on which it grows (get it?).

My tentative feature list (subject to modification with input from sponsors):
  • Some or all of the fields of the Mosets Tree advanced search page
  • An "address text field", into which user types either a zip code (postal code), or a partial address; and a "Radius" menu, with a configurable list of search radius options (3km, 6km, etc.)
  • A list of search results, similar to Mosets Tree Advanced Search Results, but on the same page as the search settings.
  • A Google Maps display, with pushpins for each listing displayed in the search results.
  • Search results displayed on same page as search fields, so that users can repeatedly search, without redoing every search term, to converge on the results they seek.
  • Radius units configurable by administrator (statute miles and km at least).

What I need are sponsors to pay for my development time. I have one sponsor already — a current client. Would you like to become a sponsor also? You will get:
  • Priority access to the Tree Moss as I develop it. I won't distribute it to non-sponsors until it's completely done.
  • First option to use the component in your site.
  • A voice in which features I put into Tree Moss
  • Support from me for your use of Tree Moss
  • A copy of the GPL-licensed code, which you are free to read, modify, and redistribute.
  • Satisfaction of helping the Mosets Tree community get a much-desired capability. Once the code is completed, I'll distributed it freely. Lee will be welcome to incorporate it into Mosets Tree if he thinks it useful.

I estimate this component will cost about $2000-3000 for me to develop. Sponsors would split this cost between them, plus pay $100-200 for my support. Sponsors who pay more get more say in the project decisions. The more sponsors we get, the cheaper it is for everyone.

I can provide references to other clients. You are also welcome to check out my blog, blog.jdlh.com, my tri-lingual website, jdlh.com, and the posts I've made on these forums.

Are you interested? Please, ask questions on this thread if you like. If you are seriously interested in sponsoring, please contact me on my website or at info [at] jdlh.com . We can take it from there.

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2009, 04:03 PM
thijsstruijk thijsstruijk is offline
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Default Promissing

Hi Jim,

This looks promising, but I think after the ZCS experience not many people would likely pay in advance. Maybe you should develop en start a site to subscribe for about 99dollar, when your product is out of beta spheres.

Well yes than I'm very willing to pay for it, even more than the 99dollar.

There is also still clanspot who is at the break of a beta-release and Im very curious what he will bring along.

Regards Thijs
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:45 PM
guaru guaru is offline
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Default

Its like Thijs said

It would be very usefull ... but should be at least an beta out there, if it is ok
I would be very happy to contribute

ZCS experience was not good

we live we learn
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2009, 11:31 PM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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guaru, Thijs, thank you for your replies.

It's clear that many people have less trust as a result of their disappointment with ZCS. That's understandable.

However, I'd suggest that to hold out for seeing a beta, and then to contribute only about $99, may be to take the wrong lesson from the ZCS experience. After all, Zipcode Shop didn't just have a beta, they had a completed product; they sold it for less than $99; and they still managed to disappoint a lot of people.

It seems to me — and I was never their customer, maybe I'm wrong — that the crucial problems with Zipcode Shop were: 1) they accepted money for support, but didn't provide it; and 2) the software they supplied was protected, so customers could not support it themselves, or hire someone else to do so. I think that a GPL-licensed, freely available extension gets around those problems.

Any developer who wants to build a GPL-licensed extension has a risk and trust problem of their own. They may do the work of building the extension and then not find enough contributors to cover their costs. Because everyone knows the extension will be freely available someday, someone could refuse to pay and still (later) get to use the extension. There is a term for a developer taking all the risk of development, and then licensing the result to many at a low price. It is "software publishing", and that's not the business I'm offering to be in. Someone else may want to be in that business, which is fine.

Building trust is a fundamental problem in business, and there are tools for dealing with it: references for vendors, purchase orders, dividing payments between in advance and on delivery, escrow accounts, etc. I'm willing to work with contributors on that. I have direct clients who trust me enough, and who I trust enough, to do business. We use these tools.

I don't expect that everyone who reads this thread will want to participate. That is understandable. But if no-one participates, then everyone has to solve the lack of zipcode / radius search on their own. The question is, do enough people want to participate to make a collective project go forward?

Thanks again for your comments,

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2009, 12:00 AM
darylcrouse darylcrouse is offline
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Default Throwing my support in the ring for this...

I just joined the cause as a sponsor for Jim to develop this extension. Who else will join me?


Daryl
www.signlanguageinterpreters.com
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2009, 09:09 AM
fireman fireman is offline
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Default Facts First

I need more info before I get excited about this enough to throw my cash into it.

Jim-

1. Assuming you receive the funding you need to begin this effort, how long do you believe it will take for you to get to a production ready component with all the features you listed?

2. Will you offer support and bug/compatibility patches and fixes going forward?

3. Will you continue to develop for later releases of Joomla and or Mosets Tree as they evolve?

Depending on the answers, I may be willing to bring as much as half of your start-up requirements to the table.

Mark Harris
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2009, 02:10 PM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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Great questions, Mark/fireman. Let me give you some answers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman View Post
1. Assuming you receive the funding you need to begin this effort, how long do you believe it will take for you to get to a production ready component with all the features you listed?
I expect this work to take about 3-4 business weeks in total to get to feature-complete, testable version. After this would be a few weeks of support, where you use the components, and I fix bugs and help you with problems. It also seems wise to break the project up into 4-8 phases of a few days each. Thus you'd see incremental progress. All these estimates are based on the spec I agreed with the first donor; if the other initial donors ask for more features, that will take more time.

I expect that we'd take through next week to get spec and terms sorted out. Then I'm out at a conference on the week of Oct 12th. So we should think in terms of starting on Oct 19, having interim drops weekly or better, and having feature complete code by mid-late November.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman View Post
2. Will you offer support and bug/compatibility patches and fixes going forward?
Yes, though it will be paid for. I anticipate negotiating a support fee with each donor to cover my individual attention to them while we test and fix the initial release over a few weeks. After that point, and for issues beyond the basic operation of the radius search feature with stock Mosets Tree 2.1.2, I'm available for hire to do support or further development. But you will have the code and it's GPL licensed, so you could also do that work yourself, or hire someone else to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman View Post
3. Will you continue to develop for later releases of Joomla and or Mosets Tree as they evolve?
Same answer: I'm available for hire, but you could get someone else to do it. One obvious "someone else" is the Mosets crew; once they get a copy of the code, the GPL license gives them freedom to integrate it into Mosets if they wish.

(Long-term, it makes complete sense for radius search to be integrated into the Mosets Tree codebase.)

To be clear, I don't promise to remain in the Radius Search custom development business forever. If it's a good business I'll keep doing it; if it isn't, or if someone else starts doing a better job of it, I'll move on, but the GPL licensed code will remain. I can promise to be available for hire to my donors for, say, a year or two, if that is important.

Any other questions? Are you in?

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #8  
Old 10-07-2009, 07:49 AM
adamramli adamramli is offline
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Default Sponsor

Interested, let me know $$ details as soon as available.

Last edited by adamramli; 10-07-2009 at 07:52 AM.
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  #9  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:28 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamramli View Post
Interested, let me know $$ details as soon as available.
Thank you, adamramli. I'd like to nail everything down this week. Could you please contact me at http://jdlh.com/en/contact/ with your direct email address? Also, please let me know if you have a base of operations in Canada, because if so I need to charge GST tax.

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2009, 09:44 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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General note to others: I believe there is enough interest from partners to get started. I'd like to nail down the partners and the spec by this Friday, October 9. If you'd like a say in the spec, please join in now.

Once development starts, I welcome other partners (it reduces the cost for the initial partners) but I can't promise that I can include your features in the project. They would become a phase 2 item. Also, in fairness to the risk the early partners took on, I may ask for a more than a proportionate share of the cost from you.

For the non-partners, you'll have to wait to see the component. I will release it under the GPL, but not until it's finished. That means that I've developed and debugged it, and let the partners run it in product long enough that I think the major bugs have been fixed. I expect this to take a few months. If you'd like to include radius search in your site soon, becoming a partner is a good idea.

To join in the fun, please contact me on my own site: http://jdlh.com/en/contact/.
Best regards to all,

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2009, 04:27 AM
fireman fireman is offline
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Looks like this has dropped off the radar. Has anyone had contact with Jim?
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2009, 05:22 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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The project is forming, just not on this thread. :-)

I've got a detailed proposal which I've passed out to several potential partners. Right now I have two people who have contacted me with specific interest, and a half-dozen more that contacted me but are going with other options, like Sobi2 or their own code.

I'm still glad to have more partners, and the way to get started is still to please contact me on my own site: http://jdlh.com/en/contact/.

Best regards to all,

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2009, 05:14 AM
bgrohsman bgrohsman is offline
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Default I'm on board

If you're still interested in doing this, I'm happy to contribute, I could definitely benefit from having this functionality on my site... Let me know how I can be of assistance
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2009, 10:09 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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Hi, all:

I want to give an update on this project. I've exchanged email with about ten potential sponsors since late September. I have supplied them a detailed project proposal and specification. So far, everyone has either dropped their requirement for zip code and radius search, or has found an alternative supplier, or has decided to build something themselves.

I'm still open to doing this project, if sponsors can be found. But I have to report that I am not moving forward at the moment.

As always, the best way to get in touch with me about this project is still to please contact me on my own site: http://jdlh.com/en/contact/.

Best wishes for a happy new year to all Mosets users!

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2010, 09:54 AM
fireman fireman is offline
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Default ZCS Type Module

Jim,

The problem I had was the cost. You wanted $3000 for development. I have to believe that you know that is what caused everyone to bail. It's a lot of money for something that may or may not do everything we all wanted either individually of collectively. In addition, the maintenance would be a nightmare since Joomla and Mosets are in continual development.

I wish you well. And I would have been willing to partner with you to develop and take it to market. Just my thoughts.

Mark
Fireman
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  #16  
Old 01-07-2010, 09:27 PM
donmarvin donmarvin is offline
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I can do it for < $500. In fact I'm working on a project right now where i will be doing that this month. I will post the instructions online when I'm finished
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2010, 07:02 PM
pensive612 pensive612 is offline
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I'm sure Jim planned to donate most of that $3000.00 to the people who developed Joomla and Mosets...

DonMarvin. Thank you for being realistic, and a positive force in an open source community.

Please let us know what you find.

Best of luck.
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2010, 03:55 AM
bgrohsman bgrohsman is offline
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Default Super

Thank you so much for that Don - I could still really use radius distance search on my public benefit addiction treatment resource site. It's the most requested addition to my site period. Please let me know how it turns out.
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  #19  
Old 02-13-2010, 07:21 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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If someone can develop a component for $500 and make a living, or wants to do the up-front work and license the result for $85, or wants to do the work without asking for compensation, then more power to them.

I don't apologise for making a realistic estimate of how much time it would take me to to do the work, and asking for sponsorship of that work. At the time, I was the only one with a serious proposal. Now, others have stepped forward. Let's hope they are successful.

There are many paths which end up at freely-available GPL licensed radius search components for Mosets Tree. As long as we get there, the community is well served.

--Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada. Multilingual Joomla & Drupal website consultant.
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  #20  
Old 04-21-2011, 10:52 PM
jeffhoneyager jeffhoneyager is offline
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Default Hot Property Zip Code Radius Search - Here

We are in final testing for a zip code radius search.

Check out the "test/development" site at:

http://property.gracehost.net

If you are interested, let me know...

Peace & Joy,
Jeff Honeyager

jeff.honeyager (at) gmail.com
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  #21  
Old 04-22-2011, 12:54 AM
JimDeLaHunt JimDeLaHunt is offline
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Good for you!

I presume that people who would like to license the component should email you at the gmail address you gave?

BTW check your inputs: I typed in a Canadaian postal code ("V6G 1Y6") in the zip code entry box, and the result was several dozen error messages, starting with


Notice: Trying to get property of non-object in /home/gracehos/public_html/property/components/com_radius_search/models/results.php on line 107
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  #22  
Old 04-22-2011, 07:43 PM
jeffhoneyager jeffhoneyager is offline
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Default Thank you.

It is being tested so, thank you for taking time to help us out and for the feedback.
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