Documentation for a manual?

[andyahoo]

I don't see documentation or a manual anywhere. I thought I might get it in a pdf in the download. Do I have to rely on this forum and email for every question?

[coldfusion]

Originally Posted by andyahoo

I don't see documentation or a manual anywhere. I thought I might get it in a pdf in the download. Do I have to rely on this forum and email for every question?

I feel you brother..... My boss laid a CD on my desk today, with it a memo:

Please install this with our Joomla site... We can't install it.... no luck over the weekend... maybe you can.


Ok... Now I have wasted 2 hours of my time....
My Boss has wasted 2 hours of time....

We are familiar with Joomla and Mambo... As Mosets says....
If you are familiar with Mambo we feel this should be an easy installation and thats why we havent made manuals...

Come on MOSETS... People are paying money here....
Even Free Open Source Software comes with good documentation... NONE HERE!

[vibez]

Did your boss not give you email which he recieved when he purchased mosets? It had a fairly simple guide on how to get the things up and running.

REQUIREMENT
-----------
Joomla 1.x and above. You can download the latest version of Joomla
at:

http://developer.joomla.org/sf/frs/d...omla_1_0.1_0_4

OR Mambo 4.5.2 and above. You can download the latest version of Mambo
4.5.2 at:

http://mamboforge.net/frs/?group_id=5&release_id=4654

INSTALLATION
------------

A minimum installation will require you to complete Step 1.

[STEP 1] Installing Component
-----------------------------

Installation of Mosets Tree is similar to other component's
installation in Joomla/Mambo. Once you're in the Administrator back-end:

1) Goto "Components -> Install/Uninstall"
2) Select "Upload Package File"
3) Choose "com_mtree-156.zip"
4) And finally press "Upload File"

Once your installation is successful, you will be greeted with the
Mosets Tree logo and some information about writable directories
required by Mosets Tree.

Please make sure you publish the Mosets Tree component at the 'Main
Menu', to allow your visitors to access the directory.

1) Menu -> Main Menu
2) Click 'New' button
3) Choose 'Component'. Press Next
4) Fill in the text fields and select 'Mosets Tree' component.
5) Save and publish it.

[STEP 2] Installing Modules
---------------------------

Next you, you need to install all the Site and Administrator
Modules (optional). To install all the 14 Site Modules and
5 Administrator Modules:

1) Modules -> Install/Uninstall
2) Select "Upload Package File"
3) Choose <mod_mt_*.zip> OR <mod_admin_mt_*.zip>
4) Press Upload File.

To start using any of the Site Modules, simply publish the module
and it will be shown in your Joomla/Mambo website.

To use Administrator Modules, you must first make sure it is in
correct position:

Module Name Position
----------- --------
Mosets Tree Admin - Unapproved Listing Header
Mosets Tree Admin - Unapproved Reviews Header
Mosets Tree Admin - Unapproved Categories Header
Mosets Tree Admin Full Menu Top
Mosets Tree Admin Pathway Pathway

You need to continue with Step 3 to install Administrator templates
so that it will make use of the Full Menu and Pathway.

[Step 3] Installing Templates
-----------------------------

To install the Bluetree Site Template:

1) Site -> Template Manager -> Install (the one under Site Template)
2) Select "Upload Package File"
3) Choose "tem_mosets_bluetree-15.zip"
4) Press "Upload File & Install"
5) If installation is successful, click "Continue".
6) Select the Mosets Bluetree template and make it default.

The next step guides you on installing the Admin template depending
on whether you are using Mambo or Joomla. If you're using Mambo,
choose "tem_admin_mtblue-15.zip", use "tem_admin_mtjoomla-10.zip" if
you're using Joomla:

1) Installers -> Templates - Admin
2) Select "Upload Package File"
3) Choose "tem_admin_mtblue-15.zip" or "tem_admin_mtjoomla-10.zip"
4) Press "Upload File & Install"
5) If installation is successful, click "Continue".
6) Select the "MT Mambo Admin Blue" template and make it default.

[INSTALLATION COMPLETE!]

By now you have a fully working directory system for Joomla/Mambo!

FILE AND DIRECTORY PERMISSION
-----------------------------
Please make sure the configuration file and image diretories listed
below are chmoded to 777. Failure to do so might prevent you from
uploading new images or change the configuration:

1) Configuration File -
/administrator/components/com_mtree/config.mtree.php

2) Image Directories -
/components/com_mtree/img/listings/
/components/com_mtreeimg/cats/
/media/

LANGUAGE FILES
--------------
English language file is located at this location:

/components/com_mtree/language/english.php

To translate Mosets Tree in to another language, all you need to
do is make another copy of english.php and name it french.php (for
example), and do the translation to that file. Once the translation
is done, simply change the language used in the Mosets Tree
Configuration to french.

You will also need to create another file called french.xml based
on english.xml to store the translation's information (author,
creation date etc).

SUPPORT
-------
Your satisfaction is very important to us, should you have any
questions using this component, please do not hesitate to send us
an e-mail to support@mosets.com or visit our Support Helpdesk at
http://www.mosets.com/support/.

LICENSE
-------
This purchase entitles you to 1 license.

Best regards,
Lee Cher Yeong

[lmontejo]

OK, we can install the software. But what if I want to make any minor modifications to it?

I would like to add fields in my Add Listing Form, and write this new info to MySQL.

Since you don't have a documentation manual, can you please tell me the files that I need to open to do this? I can help myself with the dB since at least I can see its tables.

Thanks.

[jmccann]

I'm also looking for a User Manual (not an installation manual!!) A manual that can be given to a content editor who can manage the directory listings.

Surely there is manual that comes with the software?

[weatherangel]

Originally Posted by lmontejo

OK, we can install the software. But what if I want to make any minor modifications to it?

I would like to add fields in my Add Listing Form, and write this new info to MySQL.

Since you don't have a documentation manual, can you please tell me the files that I need to open to do this? I can help myself with the dB since at least I can see its tables.

Thanks.

I have noticed that in the new version, I am missing one of the very basic menus in the template manager.... The menu which allows you to edit the templates! That might be what's going on with the lack of information around here -- especially if they don't realize it's potentially missing.

[dknight]

You can actuall edit Mosets Tree template in Mosets Tree's back-end. Click on 'Templates' and then the name of the template. You will see a list of templates available for modification.

[weatherangel]

Originally Posted by dknight

You can actuall edit Mosets Tree template in Mosets Tree's back-end. Click on 'Templates' and then the name of the template. You will see a list of templates available for modification.

Yeah, I didn't see the "edit" button in the top left... It had just moved from the last version I had -- I think. Either way, found it, thanks.

[edbse]

Yes, I also feel the need for a manual (NOT for the installation). Posting a question in the forum is fine - people always help, but you have to wait a few days. I'd rather read a thorough explanation and go to the forum only after that.

[michele654]

Having just purchased it, I was quite shocked not to find a quick-start or administration manual on using and maintaining Mosets Tree. I agree that something to give you the feel of what to try and where to go to get started seems necessary.

-Michele

[alanpbrigden]

I really cant believe Mosets hasn't any form of documentation?? I am spending hours of my time trying work things out for myself. Dont get me wrong this is a great product and well worth the money, but come on guys!!!

[Mary]

not only there's no manual but this forum is crap, don't recommend mosets

[Salsabil]

Originally Posted by Mary

not only there's no manual but this forum is crap, don't recommend mosets

sorry but this comment of yours is a "crap", I as a customer can recommend this great extension because you get for every problem a answer, most unanswered questions are related to modification and so on...

and there is a private forum for customer, you will get answer to problems within 24 ours.

[Lenfitz]

Mosets is so simple. Why would you really need a manual?

Spend the time to go through mosets and take a good look at everything. A lot of the time there is a little explanation of what most things do. The forum does have a lot of answers if you take the time to search properly.

Here's a tip: Search both 2.0 and 2.1 forum sections. All the clues can be found as 2.1 is a migration of 2.0 .

If your a paying customer then there is also a private support section that Lee (Dknight) responds to in a day or so and he wrote Mosets and the Guru to solve your issues. Support is brilliant.

People need to understand that out of the box support there is always an answer already on this forum if you look hard enough. For special modifications thats a different ball game. Mosets is open source and will let you modify the program as far as your skills will let you and in some cases the generous efforts by Lee and members of this forum do help out when they can.

Mosets is used by the Official Joomla Extensions Directory (JED) as its preferred directory structure for its extensions. There is no better recommendation than Joomla.

Mosets is like using any product. The more time you spend learning it the more you will appreciate it. Granted sometimes it can be a bit frustrating in the learning process especially by those with very little coding experience where modifications are concerned but that is where you must do the learning. Learning will reward you with a unique directory.

[dknight]

Thank you both.

@Mary

We spend most of our time on Priority Support Forum, providing support to paying subscribers. Most if not all, issues raised there are resolved. Sometime we even provide minor modification without charge. As mentiond by Lenfitz and Salsabil, we usually respond within 24 hours.

[alanpbrigden]

Its all very well looking through the forum for a answer to problem if you have hours of time on your hands. Please don't get me wrong this is a fantastic product and i think you guys have done a great job. I am a very busy web designer, and find my time very valuable, i have spent hours looking through the forum for solutions that i feel could have been easily solved with a documentation. I would be willing to pay more as a new customer to get that extra service. Anyway keep up the great work

[karenbanting]

I agree, documentation is needed. I've already spent a couple of hours looking for information on customizing Mosets, which is time I can't really afford to spend digging around a forum, & which might have been made quicker with a manual.....(and clearer - noticed some postings were outdated due to changes etc) , but I see people have been asking for documentation for some years now.... same goes for an integrated payment system with MT (we couldn't believe after purchasing MT that it didn't have this most basic of requirements for directory software) - perhaps this needs to be explained on the sales page BEFORE people purchase MT - we might see it quickly implemented then........

[tradewise]

Whilst documentation might be handy, nothing beats an active forum like here at Mosets. You only need to keyword search what you are looking for and in 90+% of the time you'll find an answer. Too many people try searching phrases, so cut to the chase and just use one or two specific keywords and you'll be amazed at what you'll find and how quickly you'll find it.

As far as a manual goes, yes it might be handy but from a developers point of view its a nightmare to maintain for each new release and can add weeks of time to update. Personally, I've learnt so much from these forums and have not had the need of a manual. If you do get stuck though and can't wait for a forum reply, Lee is generally very quick to respond to Priority Support issues.

[karenbanting]

Active?
I've been looking over this forum now for over 3 hours & I can't count how many times I've found a post on something I need to either clarify, learn or implement etc and maybe I've been unlucky but most times there has either been no answer or the advice given had stopped working after upgrades etc.. (and for which no newer solution was given, either.)

Frankly, to say no documentation provided for this product is ok is, well, surprising, being as you know how some things such as customizing, payment integration etc are not so easy. Look around this forum and all the people asking questions & tell me it wouldn't be better to have provided documentation in all these years - And I'm not the only one suggesting documentation either. Like the others, I simply don't have the time to search forums for hours for each & every component, module or plugin on my site. A simple pdf, just like some developers put out with their free products (ie: Gavic Pro has exceptional documentation for his free modules...) is all I'm asking for after paying $120 - and I don't think that's asking for too much.

[tradewise]

I never said no documentation provided for this product is ok, I said documentation might be handy - there is a difference. In the absence of a manual however you have these forums and the Knowledge Base articles, are you aware of these? http://www.mosets.com/help/kb/mosets-tree

There are numerous helpful posts throughout these forums the above link can also be helpful for getting started with some basic modifications. Trouble is too many people ask first without looking. So, I believe there are a lot of posts that go unanswered simply because the answer has already been given, one first needs to take time and look and not expect others to do it for them. Research is the key.

I knew very little of PHP & MySQL 5 years ago and thanks to Mosets I've learnt and grown with it. I've gone from getting less than $20 per hour for building basic websites to charging more than $50 per hour for building web solutions. But you can't learn it in 5 minutes or a few hours. It takes time - lots of time!. A good website is one that takes months of man hours to put together and not thrown together in a week by one person.

Granted, there are some questions that are genuine and warrant a reply, but most of these are asking how to do a modification because they think its a really good idea and then expect the developers or other users to drop everything, write the code and then show them how to do it, instead of taking the time to learn how to do it themselves - every body has to start somewhere.

I suppose though if Mosets charged more than $120 for the component they might then be able to afford staff to monitor the forums 24/7 or take time to create a manual. It's a catch 22 they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't which is clearly evident in this topic.

As this will be my final word on this topic I'd just like to say - Thanks Lee, your lack of a manual forced me to learn and for that I am truly grateful.

[alanpbrigden]

Well i still think a day or so writing a manual would save hours and hours of my time trying to find one simple answer to a problem. i have had this happen numerous times, as i said before i am really busy, i don't want to know the ins and outs of development, if i did i would have built this product myself. I dont think this should be the end of this discussion, i really truly think that this product needs some form of documentation, and yes i would be willing to pay for the time, why not?? Its well worth it!

[tradewise]

I wasn't going to weigh in on this any further, but I just couldn't resist.

Alan, if you think you could write a manual in "a day or so" then mate you need to come and work for me because your typing speed must be in the order of 2500 WPM with 100% accuracy and you must have a remarkable err sorry... outstanding natural technical writing ability.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that a manual can take just as much time to write as the component itself.

For my own component which I do have a manual for, I've just finished 2 months of coding the new version with some extensive new features. However, to be consistent with my offerings, I now need to update the manual and that's going to take easily a minimum of a month or more to do and will require another full time commitment to do it in that time frame. With my other commitments it looks like I'm up for another month of 18+ hour days which I can tell you takes a lot out of you health wise and the $$$ return isn't that great.

To be right, manuals need to be written it in such away that everybody will understand. I can tell you from experience sometimes you'll write one paragraph 20 times till you get it right. Then the next time you revise the manual you'll probally rehash that paragraph again. Developers are generally great at writing code but suck at writing manuals because they find it very difficult to adapt their writing style in to non technical terms which is what is required.

Based on my own knowledge of Mtree, I think a manual complete with basic to intermediate texts and illustrations/screen shots would need to be a minimum of 200 pages but more likely 300 pages +. Let's face it the Idiots Guide to MS FrontPage 2000 is some 367 pages and I'm damn sure it took a group of professional technical writers more than a day or so to write.

I've thought about writing a manual for Mtree myself from a users prospective, because YES I can see a need, but, unfortunately the time commitment required would not be commercially justifiable.

So, to really push the manual argument you need to really ask if you think Lee and his team would be better off stopping development further of Mtree so they can effectively concentrate on writing a manual. I for one would prefer they further develop the component and if a manual eventually eventuates then that's great and if it doesn't then it's no biggy because I was well aware from doing my research that a manual was not available before I decided to buy the component!

If you didn't do the research then you only have yourself to blame.

[alanpbrigden]

I was thinking more like a brief to at least get things started perhaps a three page PDF, something that helps the the millions who aren't developers, i wasn't thinking of a novel or book of the year???

If i were to write the manual it would probably take me a year, i must be the slowest typist on the planet, you shouldn't take it all so personally im not mocking the hard work you and the guys are doing to further develop and help grow mosets, this is a forum for ideas and way to voice opinion as well as get help.

I did review the product before i bought it but later found that it does need to have a manual, i have learned a lot from having to find the problems myself, but am finding it frustrating having to come over to the forum and wait sometimes a day or so to get an answer, while under a tight deadline to get the job finished, i work on my own and have to wear a lot of hats, i wish i new more about development, but i really haven't the time to learn all there is to learn.

I'll say it again i think this products rocks and the guys have done an excellent job, so please chillout, this is a free err ...world, well maybe not!!

[Lenfitz]

I see both sides of the coin for a manual. A further problem to creating a manual would be rewriting-updating it every new version and update. Then ontop of that Translations would need to come into play which equates to the Mosets developers basically doing no updates - no new coding and Mosets will stop being developed to produce manuals and changes. This would eat up months if not years of the Mosets development.

Joomla can do this because they have the volounteer human resources in the hundreds where as Mosets does not.

Perhaps users could take up the challenge by starting with a pdf or wiki page that the community could add/update like a mosets wiki but for pdf they would require pdf writer which isnt cheap.

So if you really want a manual then it would have to be a community developed and updated manual.

I too would rather Lee and team continue the development of Mosets coding as this is where Mosets real value is.

[Lenfitz]

http://www.mosets.com/help/kb/mosets-tree